Comments on: No-Body Home http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/03/nobody/ The random musings of psychotherapist Wayne C. Allen - a simple Zen guy - on living and relating elegantly Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:13:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: wayne http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/03/nobody/#comment-283 wayne Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:35:17 +0000 http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/03/nobody/#comment-283 Great comment, Peter! As I observe myself with this one, I notice that I actually forgive myself for the thoughts that might re-occur. Ben and Jock and I used to talk about dealing with betrayal by friends, and how sad the feeling of that was. As I think of a couple of people, I can go toward 1) anger and wanting revenge, 2) sending them metta (good Buddhist I wish to be some day...) or 3) watching myself dispassionately. When I do the former, I let the feeling be there, process it, and then forgive myself. This is how I interpret your last paragraph. My "remaking of myself" has been in letting go of the need for 'actual' revenge, and letting go of the need to beat up on me for having the thought in the first place. There's an old Zen story, guy asks, "What is enlightenment?" and the wise guy puts down a large pile of wood he's been carrying, and says, "Ahhh!" Guy says, "What comes after enlightenment?" Wise guy picks up the wood and continues on his path. Same wood, different carry. Always think of you warmly, and with a smile, Wayne Great comment, Peter!
As I observe myself with this one, I notice that I actually forgive myself for the thoughts that might re-occur. Ben and Jock and I used to talk about dealing with betrayal by friends, and how sad the feeling of that was. As I think of a couple of people, I can go toward 1) anger and wanting revenge, 2) sending them metta (good Buddhist I wish to be some day…) or 3) watching myself dispassionately. When I do the former, I let the feeling be there, process it, and then forgive myself.
This is how I interpret your last paragraph. My “remaking of myself” has been in letting go of the need for ‘actual’ revenge, and letting go of the need to beat up on me for having the thought in the first place.
There’s an old Zen story, guy asks, “What is enlightenment?” and the wise guy puts down a large pile of wood he’s been carrying, and says, “Ahhh!” Guy says, “What comes after enlightenment?” Wise guy picks up the wood and continues on his path.
Same wood, different carry.
Always think of you warmly, and with a smile,
Wayne

]]> By: Peter Hoban http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/03/nobody/#comment-282 Peter Hoban Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:05:31 +0000 http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/03/nobody/#comment-282 Hi Wayne You wrote: I suggested that perhaps it was time to forgive the relative — by which I actually mean, let go of carrying the burden of the anger and the disappointment, and the energy of the past—and also perhaps some guilt being carried. Forgiveness is an inside job of letting go of clinging to the "abuse story." Now ain't that true. Regrettably the Western church has corrupted the notion of forgiveness and invented a sham which enables people to spew their loathing of some other person and add at the end "... but of course I forgive him everything" when the first part of the sentence shows they had not. As you say it is an inside job. I wonder if letting go might be a bit like "don't think of the colour blue" - still focussed on the issue when the desire is to end that. For myself the critical step was the positive one to reinvent who I am and only then could I leave the old stories behind. Of course it is difficult. Kind regards, Peter Hi Wayne

You wrote: I suggested that perhaps it was time to forgive the relative — by which I actually mean, let go of carrying the burden of the anger and the disappointment, and the energy of the past—and also perhaps some guilt being carried. Forgiveness is an inside job of letting go of clinging to the “abuse story.”

Now ain’t that true.

Regrettably the Western church has corrupted the notion of forgiveness and invented a sham which enables people to spew their loathing of some other person and add at the end “… but of course I forgive him everything” when the first part of the sentence shows they had not.

As you say it is an inside job.

I wonder if letting go might be a bit like “don’t think of the colour blue” - still focussed on the issue when the desire is to end that. For myself the critical step was the positive one to reinvent who I am and only then could I leave the old stories behind.

Of course it is difficult.

Kind regards, Peter

]]>