Comments on: Ideological Foolishness http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/31/ideology/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ideology Wayne C. Allen - a simple Zen guy - writes about living and relating elegantly Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:53:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: wayne http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/31/ideology/#comment-289 wayne Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:40:32 +0000 http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/?p=117#comment-289 Hey Peter! Great, as usual, hearing from you. Just ready to bag it for the night, and there you were. I was working with a client today, dealing with similar issues. She was talking about telling her significant other "Don't!" whenever he offered an unsolicited demand. She seemed to 'get' that she was asking HIM to change, and did it when he was asking HER to change. The real 'getting' was that the game, for her, is going on exclusively in her head, as she deals with her view of him, which is not, and never will be, him. Boy, did she look stunned when the light went on. I like your word, fantasy. Perfect description of the movies we play in our own personal cinema - and what goes on in there is about as real as an actual cinema. I figure I have enough to do, just getting a sense of me and my stuff, dramas, and movies. No way I have a clue about Dar's! She's a slice, just as she is. Trusting all's well with you, as it is with us 'up' here. It's even supposed to be warm tomorrow. Warm wishes, Wayne Hey Peter!
Great, as usual, hearing from you. Just ready to bag it for the night, and there you were.
I was working with a client today, dealing with similar issues. She was talking about telling her significant other “Don’t!” whenever he offered an unsolicited demand. She seemed to ‘get’ that she was asking HIM to change, and did it when he was asking HER to change. The real ‘getting’ was that the game, for her, is going on exclusively in her head, as she deals with her view of him, which is not, and never will be, him. Boy, did she look stunned when the light went on.
I like your word, fantasy. Perfect description of the movies we play in our own personal cinema — and what goes on in there is about as real as an actual cinema.
I figure I have enough to do, just getting a sense of me and my stuff, dramas, and movies. No way I have a clue about Dar’s! She’s a slice, just as she is.
Trusting all’s well with you, as it is with us ‘up’ here. It’s even supposed to be warm tomorrow.
Warm wishes, Wayne

]]> By: Peter Hoban http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/31/ideology/#comment-288 Peter Hoban Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:27:48 +0000 http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/?p=117#comment-288 Spot-on Wayne. One of the most difficult things Mr B has to deal with is letting go of the idea that his love is not the person he wishes for them to be, and that he cannot change that. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. In the end we love people who are themselves - not the fantasies we wish that they would be. Letting go of the fantasy is very difficult and continues to give me much pain after 5 years of accepting it. How much I would prefer the fantasy. However it is just fantasy, and I cannot make it real. I love your columns. Kind regards, Peter Spot-on Wayne.

One of the most difficult things Mr B has to deal with is letting go of the idea that his love is not the person he wishes for them to be, and that he cannot change that.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

In the end we love people who are themselves — not the fantasies we wish that they would be. Letting go of the fantasy is very difficult and continues to give me much pain after 5 years of accepting it. How much I would prefer the fantasy.

However it is just fantasy, and I cannot make it real.

I love your columns. Kind regards, Peter

]]> By: wayne http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/31/ideology/#comment-287 wayne Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:41:00 +0000 http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/?p=117#comment-287 Hi there, and thanks for a great question. The short answer is, nothing. I tell clients there are always three choices as one deals with an issue: 1) stay (accept the situation uncritically) 2) go (refuse to participate) and 3) complain The latter is the most popular. We all have a tendency to judge others and to want them to change what they are doing, because we are uncomfortable. We can't understand why they don't see the 'truth.' (…the truth of our belief... which is ironic, because the 'other' is trying to get us to accept their version...) Your stance is not correct for anyone but you, and the other person's stance is correct for them. Both are where you are now, and both may, and likely will, change. Let's pick the other two options: 1) stay - if you can accept the idea that you are judging that his/her stance is 'wrong' (for all the reasons you stated...) you begin to see that you are upsetting yourself (a common theme of ours...) over your belief that her/his belief is wrong. You could use this experience to practice simply watching and being present, and curbing the tendency to judge. In other words, focus on your experience and learning, and leave him/her to figure out what's up in their life. 2) go - if you find that the situation is untenable, you may choose to leave it. Since the only thing in our existence that has permanence is that things always change, we end relationships to people, places, and things, all the time. And sometimes, it's just time to move on. It is hard for all of us not to rush in to rescue, correct, fix. Hard to accept that our task is self-direction, self-responsibility, and self-discipline. This is so because, as I noted in this week's article, it's easier to see the flaws in others. We scare ourselves with our own rigidities, fears, and dark places, so we turn outward. I believe that this is backward, and doomed to fail. Externals remind us to look inside to see our own reaction, not to pretend to have an unbiased view of others. (impossible, as all of our views are coloured by our experience.) I guess I's opt for choice 1 for a while, to see what I can learn about my 'intolerance for intolerance.' I might set a time frame (say six months) during which I'd work on clearing my own pre-judgments, and then I'd consider option 2. It's all there to learn from, even (especially) the painful stuff. Wayne Hi there, and thanks for a great question.
The short answer is, nothing.
I tell clients there are always three choices as one deals with an issue: 1) stay (accept the situation uncritically) 2) go (refuse to participate) and 3) complain
The latter is the most popular. We all have a tendency to judge others and to want them to change what they are doing, because we are uncomfortable. We can’t understand why they don’t see the ‘truth.’ (…the truth of our belief… which is ironic, because the ‘other’ is trying to get us to accept their version…)
Your stance is not correct for anyone but you, and the other person’s stance is correct for them. Both are where you are now, and both may, and likely will, change.
Let’s pick the other two options:
1) stay — if you can accept the idea that you are judging that his/her stance is ‘wrong’ (for all the reasons you stated…) you begin to see that you are upsetting yourself (a common theme of ours…) over your belief that her/his belief is wrong. You could use this experience to practice simply watching and being present, and curbing the tendency to judge. In other words, focus on your experience and learning, and leave him/her to figure out what’s up in their life.
2) go — if you find that the situation is untenable, you may choose to leave it. Since the only thing in our existence that has permanence is that things always change, we end relationships to people, places, and things, all the time. And sometimes, it’s just time to move on.
It is hard for all of us not to rush in to rescue, correct, fix. Hard to accept that our task is self-direction, self-responsibility, and self-discipline. This is so because, as I noted in this week’s article, it’s easier to see the flaws in others. We scare ourselves with our own rigidities, fears, and dark places, so we turn outward. I believe that this is backward, and doomed to fail. Externals remind us to look inside to see our own reaction, not to pretend to have an unbiased view of others. (impossible, as all of our views are coloured by our experience.)
I guess I’s opt for choice 1 for a while, to see what I can learn about my ‘intolerance for intolerance.’ I might set a time frame (say six months) during which I’d work on clearing my own pre-judgments, and then I’d consider option 2.
It’s all there to learn from, even (especially) the painful stuff.
Wayne

]]> By: Mr. B http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/2008/03/31/ideology/#comment-286 Mr. B Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:43:12 +0000 http://www.phoenixcentre.com/blog/?p=117#comment-286 What can one do if someone you love is caught in an ideology (fundamentalism) that is shoring up their weak ego strength, but causing them to lose themselves to that ideology, such that they have given up many things that used to make them happy And they now have a sense of intitlement to act in ways that are righteous to them but judmental and hurtful to others? They seem to have a pat answer to everything and will not listen to alternatives. What can one do if someone you love is caught in an ideology
(fundamentalism) that is shoring up their weak ego strength, but causing them to lose themselves to that ideology, such that they have given up many things that used to make them happy
And they now have a sense of intitlement to act in ways that are righteous to them but judmental and hurtful to others?
They seem to have a pat answer to everything and will not
listen to alternatives.

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